ABDUL RAZAK BAGINDA, MALAYSIAN STRATEGIC RESEARCH CENTRE: I think there are certain issues that will still linger on. I think while the relations are fundamentally strong, based on defence and economic and commercial ties, I think political problems are the ones that - political issues are the ones that confront Sydney - Canberra and Kuala Lumpur. And, for instance, the whole idea of Australia's new role, if you like, in the region will remain even with the departure of Dr Mahathir Mohamad.

MARK DAVIS: John Howard has wished him a happy but very long retirement, but is this the end of Mahathir? Will his influence cease?

ABDUL RAZAK BAGINDA: think his influence will be felt both directly and indirectly. Obviously his ideas a and his ideas of how the region is going to be managed, if you like, will always be around and I think he will also be a reference point, if you like, for the new government. And in terms of public opinion and the media in this country, I think people will still refer to Dr Mahathir as someone - as a wise man, if you like, for opinions and to see where Malaysia should head. So I think despite him retiring, I think we will still feel - we will still feel his impact.

MARK DAVIS: So he will be retiring but not into oblivion?

ABDUL RAZAK BAGINDA: Certainly not.

MARK DAVIS: Before we move on to the future leadership, Mahathir's final state visit was to PNG, a country which Australia recently seems intent upon reclaiming. Do you believe his intentions there were economic or strategic?

ABDUL RAZAK BAGINDA: I think both. Obviously there are certain things that Malaysia can do with PNG, themselves trying to look at commercial and economic ties, but I think strategic, Papua New Guinea has always been seen as a country that is at the periphery of South-East Asia and from what we understand, Papua New Guinea would like to establish closer relations with ASEAN and I think Dr Mahathir's visit is to forge those ties further and find ways and means that both two countries can work together. Not only bilaterally but also within the region.

MARK DAVIS: Well the new Prime Minister Abdullah Badawi has a reputation of being a far more moderate man, a conciliatory man. Do you expect any significant changes under his rule?

ABDUL RAZAK BAGINDA: Well, I think there will be certainly more continuity than change, but obviously style - we'll see a different style here. Abdullah is more gentle, if you like, he's less strident, I think, in his views. He's more, as you said, not necessarily conciliatory but he certainly would be far more soft in his approach and I think this may be welcomed among some quarter. And we may see a more people to people - or a more people approach, if you like, in diplomacy and I think Abdullah will certainly bring with him when he visits the region as well as beyond the region.

MARK DAVIS: Some commentators are hoping that Badawi will be more accepting of civil liberty issues, greater press freedoms, more independent judiciary. Are there any signs of this occurring?

ABDUL RAZAK BAGINDA: Well, I don't think so. I think it's a little bit too early to talk of the, you know, the loosening of media control and all that. I think there are certain areas that will always be fundamental to Malaysian leaders and this would be certain issues pertaining to race relations and even certain areas that are considered to be taboo subjects, and I think in terms of media freedom we will have to wait and see how fast and how this will evolve. A lot also depends on the population at large and the media itself. I think it provides an opportunity for the media to also test the boundaries. So I think it's not so much Abdullah, but I also think the media too has to now exert itself if it so desires.

MARK DAVIS: Well it doesn't sound like there are any great expectations for change within the country, but there are rumours that Anwar Ibrahim may be released from prison, that Badawi is more sympathetic to his case. Is that likely with Dr Mahathir still on the scene?

ABDUL RAZAK BAGINDA: I don't think so. I think some people are thinking are thinking along those lines but I think one has to see, because it's already in the due process of the law so therefore the law will have to take its own course. I think we have to not necessarily - I know there's been a lot of suggestions that with the departure of Dr Mahathir, this will allow some so-called leeway, if you like, in terms of dealing with Anwar Ibrahim. I think one has to decouple those two issues. Besides, I think in as far as Anwar Ibrahim, as far as the Anwar Ibrahim issue is concerned, I think people generally would like to move on, although it is still, some would argue, it is still an unfinished business, if you like.

MARK DAVIS: With regard to future relations with Australia and the West in general, for 20 years our national relations have been filtered through our relationships with Dr Mahathir. Now, the mutual taunting may stop, but will the real issues remain and I'd like to look at some of those issues one by one. For instance, will Malaysia still actively seek to exclude Australia from ASEAN?

ABDUL RAZAK BAGINDA: Well, obviously I don't think it's a question of excluding Australia with ASEAN. I think it's a question to what extent can Australia play a role in terms of trying to forge better relations within ASEAN and ASEAN/Australia relations as compared to say ASEAN with China, Japan and Korea. Obviously I think a lot depends on Australia as much as it is to Malaysia and ASEAN. Australia will have to show that its heart, if you like, lies with the region and not beyond - not elsewhere. And I think, as of late, we're beginning to see a differing opinion in terms of where Australia sees itself, vis-a-vis the region and in terms of its relations with the United States. So I think in term of ASEAN, I think a lot depends on Australia as much as it is on Malaysia and all the others.

MARK DAVIS: Well this has become a very significant accusation, that Australia is a US puppet. Is that an opinion held broadly within the Malaysian political scene?

ABDUL RAZAK BAGINDA: I think it is. That's why I'm suggesting that with or without Dr Mahathir that issue will still remain very high on the agenda. I think it's not - I think Bush did not do a favour to Australia when he referred Australia to as sheriff because it reinforced the perception of those in the region that Australia is a mere appendage of Washington DC and I think - and there's really no attempt also on the part of Australia to distance themselves from that notion and that again confirms that Canberra too would like to see, or sees itself as a sheriff, obviously sheriff on behalf of the United States in this part of the world.

MARK DAVIS: Well lastly, while the so-called war on terror lasts, Australia is likely to view any increase in Islamic fundamentalism in Malaysia with concern. One of Mahathir's achievements was to moderate fundamentalism in Malaysia. Will Badawi, an Islamic scholar, have the same success?

ABDUL RAZAK BAGINDA: I think Abdullah will probably go further. Because he's schooled in the Islamic tradition, I think he will be able to tackle this issue not only in terms of the state relations, but not only in terms of using state instruments, but I think he can also use the religious argument much better. I think the Islamic party, for example, seems to be a little bit more concerned about Abdullah Badawi's ability to speak the same language, if you like, with Islamists here in Malaysia. So I think Abdullah will probably push even further in terms of trying to tackle the rise of extremism and militancy in this part of the world.

MARK DAVIS: Abdul Razak Baginda thanks again for joining us.

ABDUL RAZAK BAGINDA: You're welcome.