MATORI ABDUL DJALIL, INDONESIAN DEFENCE MINISTER (Translation): We think it's just a normal thing. Because why? Because we recognise we must acknowledge the facts and the threats, so that people will understand the situation and be able to face the dangers of terrorism.

JANA WENDT: So, when you say al-Qa'ida is present in Indonesia, do you mean foreigners coming to Indonesia or do you mean domestic groups perhaps supported by al-Qa'ida?

MATORI ABDUL DJALIL: First, we have much information from international sources that indicates the existence of terrorists in Indonesia. For example, the arrest of al Faruq, who was extradited, and his confessions reveal the connection between al-Qa'ida and a network in Indonesia.

JANA WENDT: So, specifically Minister, do you believe that al-Qa'ida is responsible for the Bali attacks?

MATORI ABDUL DJALIL: When facing al-Qa'ida, we should not think in a conventional way - that is, to think from the evidence because, if we start from the evidence, we fall into the al-Qa'ida trap. Therefore, if we are to detect the presence of al-Qa'ida, we need to note what is actually happening. We know what happened in Bali was the work of professionals. It was done very quickly and came as a surprise. The targets were foreigners and, as it happened, it was Australians and we know the connection between Australia and America in view of recent events. Therefore, from what happened, we can make deductions without looking for the actual facts.

JANA WENDT: So, you are saying that you have deduced that this is the work of al-Qa'ida, but that you have no specific evidence in the case of Bali that that is the case?

MATORI ABDUL DJALIL: Once more, actually, if we think, in facing al-Qa'ida, that we have to collect data first, without looking at the other phenomena that come up, that means we are 10 steps behind al-Qa'ida.

JANA WENDT: Alright. Do you then believe that al-Qa'ida in this case was associated with a domestic Indonesian group? And, of course, Jemaah Islamiah has been mentioned.

MATORI ABDUL DJALIL: There are indications that we can rely on. Therefore, we send our police to the United States so we can interrogate al Faruq directly. Hopefully, from this, we can reveal more than we have now.

JANA WENDT: Minister, do you believe that the Indonesian military may, at some level, be involved in what happened in Bali?

MATORI ABDUL DJALIL: I believe this attempt to negatively portray the military is an attempt to discredit them and I believe the Indonesian military was not involved in these events. They are working very hard to expose terrorism in Indonesia.

JANA WENDT: The results of the CIA interrogation of al Faruq have, in fact, as I'm sure you know, been recently published by 'Time' magazine. One of the allegations that al Faruq makes is that the leader of Jemaah Islamiah, Abu Bakar Bashir, actually procured arms and explosives for al-Qa'ida. Now, will you move against Jemaah Islamiah and its leader Abu Bakar Bashir?

MATORI ABDUL DJALIL: If our officials return from America and reveal from their investigation that it is actually as you said, then we will take action.

JANA WENDT: Minister, the United States, as you know, has been warning for quite some time that your country is in danger of being or becoming a base for al-Qa'ida. Why has it taken this long for you to be receptive to that message?

MATORI ABDUL DJALIL: As you understand, in Indonesia, there are groups that don't believe or are anti-American and those people exploit Muslim groups and they think whatever America does is against Islam. And therefore we need time to tell the people and we need facts, evidence. And then, when we get new evidence, then we will tell the people that we are targeting terrorists, not Islam or the Muslim community.

JANA WENDT: How easy is it going to be for you to do that, to tell the people, when your own Vice-President, Hamzah Haz, has ridiculed the possibility of a terrorist presence in your country?

MATORI ABDUL DJALIL: Maybe in the beginning he doesn't believe, but I think, with the facts that we get later on, then he will believe, especially after the Bali incident.

JANA WENDT: Minister, what do you think are the political risks for President Megawati in acknowledging what you have been the first to acknowledge - that there is a terrorist presence in Indonesia?

MATORI ABDUL DJALIL: No, I believe the thinking of our officials is that they came to the conclusion that there is involvement of al-Qa'ida in Indonesia. However, all the officials will have to think and not say anything until getting all the facts right. And I'm determined, looking at the phenomena that occurred, that we can come to the right conclusion.

JANA WENDT: Can I just very quickly, to close, ask you this - do you fear that there is a parallel for you in Pakistan, where General Musharraf has cracked down on radical Islamists, but now has had an electoral backlash from them?

MATORI ABDUL DJALIL: I believe the majority of Muslims in Indonesia are moderate and I'm sure the radical groups are the minority. However, this minority has swayed opinion so Indonesia is tainted by this radical group. But Indonesians want the return of peace.

JANA WENDT: Minister, I'm afraid we have to leave it there but I very much appreciate your time.