KRAISAK CHOONHAVAN, CHAIRMAN, FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: I am very reluctant to support any coup. I was a former victim of coup-makers in the past in which I had to escape the country. But however, the elected government of Mr Thaksin has put Thailand in an incredible situation, namely the widespread human rights violations in the south, his complete disregard for parliamentary procedures, widespread corruption and - most importantly - his use of extra judiciary means to maintain power. The so-called democracy has been almost completely wiped out under Mr Thaksin.

GEORGE NEGUS: So what have you got now, though, Senator? If democracy was wiped out under Prime Minister Thaksin, what have you got now?

KRAISAK CHOONHAVAN: I am reluctant to say. I am reluctant to say that the coup that happened will lead us two steps forward, after the coup, I would say, is one step backwards.

GEORGE NEGUS: One step backwards and two steps forwards I'm afraid I have to interpret as you actually think the coup is necessary. I know you've said it was inevitable but that sounds like you are, at least de facto, supporting the coup.

KRAISAK CHOONHAVAN: I do not support the coup. However, I feel that it was inevitable that the coup had to take place in order for us to advance forward because if you leave the country under Mr Thaksin, I think you'll see a much more stressful population, you will see the insurgency in the southern parts spread, perhaps even become a regional threat and Thailand falling apart.

GEORGE NEGUS: In other words, you do think that Prime Minister Thaksin should go.

KRAISAK CHOONHAVAN: Yes, I would have preferred that he went of his own volition, in fact, but that was not to be. I think Mr Thaksin was banking on, you know, like, staying on almost permanently.

GEORGE NEGUS: John Howard has said that he condemns all military coups, he thinks this is a throwback to Asia's past, he is very disappointed. Alexander Downer, our foreign minister, has said that he thinks this is totally unacceptable. How do you respond to that?

KRAISAK CHOONHAVAN: Yes. I can fully understand Mr Downer's feelings on this and his position on the coup, I can truly understand. However, I cannot even support Australia's position support invasion of Iraq neither, you see? So that is, you know, like, it is quite relative, isn't it?

GEORGE NEGUS: It is. Senator, does this coup have the blessing of King Bhumibol and the Royal Family? That is very important to the Thai people if they do.

KRAISAK CHOONHAVAN: I have not considered the matter, the King was forced, in fact, to intervene after the last election when half of the population did not participate and boycotted the election - all the political parties except for the ruling party participated in the elections. The election was full of fraud, the election was full of money spreading around by the leading party. And, in fact, it was the King who asked the court to rule whether such an election is considered democratic. I can say this, I do not think that the military would act if the King were to oppose the action.

GEORGE NEGUS: Senator, we're running out of time. I would like to ask you this. The former prime minister - now we have to call Mr Thaksin - says he hasn't relinquished his powers, he isn't seeking asylum following this bloodless coup - fortunately - in your country. What happens if he returns to the country?

KRAISAK CHOONHAVAN: I think the coup makers - which they call themselves the Reform Committee Under Democracy, will probably set up a commission to investigate all the corruption allegations, the human rights violations, the disappearance of human rights lawyers and activists under his rule. I think if Mr Thaksin sees himself as a leader of Thailand and a democratic leader of the country, he should come back and face these charges.

GEORGE NEGUS: So finally, Senator, do you trust the military leaders, the leaders of this coup, when they say that they will hand back power to the people of Thailand as soon as possible? And what does "as soon as possible" mean, do you think?

KRAISAK CHOONHAVAN: I do hope a new government will be set up, a reform governor with reform-minded cabinet and a system and procedures to reform the Thai politics, namely the constitution, the other laws, to make it more democratic and safeguard Thailand against authoritarian opportunist politicians like Mr Thaksin.

GEORGE NEGUS: Finally, in the last coup in your country, it ended with people being gunned down in the streets of Bangkok. Today we saw pictures of young people posing with the military coup makers. This is a very different kind of coup.

KRAISAK CHOONHAVAN: The Thai people do in fact - particularly in Bangkok, in big cities, in the south - they do feel relieved, in fact, when the coup happened, relieved of Mr Thaksin's rule.

GEORGE NEGUS: Is it a case, then, that where this coup is concerned, the end - which is getting rid of Thaksin Shinawatra - justifies the means - a military coup?

KRAISAK CHOONHAVAN: I do not believe in military coup but I feel that this time it was inevitable.

GEORGE NEGUS: The very least we can say is that it is a bloodless coup and I think everybody is pleased about that. Thank you very much for your time.

KRAISAK CHOONHAVAN: You're welcome.

Reporter
GEORGE NEGUS

Producer / Researcher
CATHY CAREY
MELANIE MORRISON

Editor
SLAVIC GAJIC