YOSSI BEILIN, CHAIRMWN, MERETZ-YACHAD PARTY: Yeah, I believe that, in this campaign, the big question is not who wins the elections, but what kind of a coalition are we going to have. Because Kadima itself is not just a centrist party, it is a very eclectic one, with people from left and right. I don't think that they themselves know where they are heading. And this depends very much on the question - who is going to join the coalition in the future.

GEORGE NEGUS: So, you don't believe that Kadima can form a government in their own right?

YOSSI BEILIN: Well, there has never been a situation in Israel whereby one party, won by its own power, the majority. So, it is always going to be a coalition government. But the leader of the coalition has been always, in a way, elected, and that is Ehud Olmert.

GEORGE NEGUS: What kind of coalition would work, from Israel's point of view?

YOSSI BEILIN: I think that the coalition with Kadima, Labour and my party, Meretz, is going to be a reasonable one, in order to put an end to our occupation in the West Bank and to partition the land. Because, otherwise, if it is a centre right, which is not impossible, it means that there won't be any change in the West Bank.

GEORGE NEGUS: Mr Beilin, what about the really tricky question of unilateral disengagement? That's become the crucial issue.

YOSSI BEILIN: I believe that unilateral withdrawal is the last resort and it will be a huge mistake to begin the next term by suggesting unilateral withdrawal. What we have to do is to negotiate with the other side, to negotiate with the PLO, negotiate with Abu Mazen, Mahmoud Abbas. And only if there is no possibility to proceed, with the PLO, or if Hamas is saying, in advance, that they will not respect any referendum after the conclusion of negotiations between the two parties, then it would be reasonable to speak, seriously, about unilateralism.

GEORGE NEGUS: In the past, you, yourself, have described Hamas as 'repugnant'. Could you, as a Zionist, deal with them while they don't recognise the state of Israel? Would a Kadima-led Israeli Government deal with them?

YOSSI BEILIN: It is one thing to deal with them, to contact them, to talk with them - and another to formally negotiate with them. I don't think that we should put any preconditions for contact with Hamas because they are there and, you know, even now that we have the chicken flu, we have to talk with them about very concrete things - how shouldn't it spread to the occupied territories. So, we are talking to people, and apparently some of them are Hamas people, but I differentiate between negotiations and contacts. Contacts - yes. Negotiations - only if they recognise Israel and renounce terrorism.

GEORGE NEGUS: You said, recently, that Abu Mazen was 'indispensable' in all of this. But aren't you going to have to deal with Hamas, not the old PLO and Abu Mazen?

YOSSI BEILIN: I think that what is happening there is that many of the Palestinians that voted for Hamas still want peace. And will be ready that Abu Mazen will negotiate, on their behalf, with Israel. They voted for Hamas because of the corruption of the Palestinian Authority because they were fed up with the last years, believing that we might see peace, that they might see peace and they don't see peace, actually. So, I would say that negotiating with the PLO, led by Abu Mazen, is the only way which we can choose right now.

GEORGE NEGUS: Where does that leave Hamas, then?

YOSSI BEILIN: Well, that is why I said that Hamas should agree, in advance, that once we negotiate with the Palestinians, and conclude negotiations, and there is a referendum in the Palestinian Authority, that the Hamas will not torpedo the results of such a referendum.

GEORGE NEGUS: We've just seen a report from your country and it was a maze of walls and tunnels and road closures and checkpoints and barricades, dead-ends, Israeli-only highways. It certainly didn't look like a Roadmap to Peace. What is going on? I mean, how can you possibly find your way through that sort of morass to any sort of agreement with the Palestinians? They see the whole wall, thing, as an open-air prison, for them?

YOSSI BEILIN: Well, all this situation is not a result of malice but a result of having to deal with an ongoing reality, which is not always positive. But, I must admit that the result of closures and checkpoints and humiliation are awful and hatred continues and grows all the time. So, we have to put an end to it. I am not speaking about a specific checkpoint because this is something which has to do with security and it is very difficult to argue, or argue against it. But what we have to do is to put an end to the occupation.
This is why I want, so much, to put an end to the occupation because there is no benevolent occupation. And even if there are Israelis who try to keep the occupation, and do it nicely, they have to understand - no way. We have to put an end to it, to leave the territories and go back to, more or less, to the '67 borders, with minor modifications. This is the only way, this has been the only way since '67 and we made a mistake by not taking, or getting to this conclusion 40 years ago. I really appreciate that the right understood, eventually, that if we become a Jewish minority in our own land in a few years, nobody will let us have our own state, led by a Jewish minority, occupying a Palestinian majority.

GEORGE NEGUS: But with withdrawal, be it unilateral or negotiated, that wall has become a symbol for everything that divides you and the Palestinians?

YOSSI BEILIN: I hate walls and I do not believe that in the 21st century walls will solve any problem. Those who want to cross the wall can do it by throwing bombs or missiles above the wall, or the fence, or doing something underneath the wall. This is why I am far from thinking that something like this will solve our problem. What will solve our problem is an agreement with the Palestinians and then there won't be any need for walls.
If, still, Israel wants such a wall it should be on the future border between us and the Palestinian state and Israel wants to have a wall today, it should be on the '67 border. But you can not dream about good fences, which makes good neighbours, if you build your fence in the yard of your neighbour.

GEORGE NEGUS: Well, what Hamas seem to be saying is that while that wall continues to be built, the possibility of open conflict between Israelis and Palestinians is very real.

YOSSI BEILIN: Well, I must say, about Hamas, that I can not take everything they say so seriously. And I don't think that the wall is the issue that began it all. I think that it is very important for Hamas, if they are really becoming the dominant party, and if they want to have any type of contacts, serious contacts, with the Israel, and maybe even peace with Israel, to first renounce terrorism. As long as they still remain a terrorist organisation and a political party, it will be very difficult to convince even very moderate Israelis to negotiate with them and to take what they say very seriously.

GEORGE NEGUS: Mr Beilin, I realise you're busy. Thank you very much for your time. Shalom.