KG: And that was Jenny Macklin speaking with me in Darwin last week. And joining me now is the man whose government put the intervention in place. Tony Abbott is the Coalition's spokesperson on Indigenous affairs.

KG: Mr Abbott, welcome to the program.

Tony Abbott, Shadow Minister for Indigenous Affairs: It's a pleasure.

KG: The Minister has admitted that there are some issues with aspects of the intervention, the roll-out of income management being the major concern. Now, these were measures put in place by your government. What do you think are the solutions to some of these problems?

Tony Abbott: I don't think there are any fundamental problems with the intervention. I accept that there are always issues that come up that need to be addressed as you go along. And if, for argument's sake, under income quarantining there needs to be a slightly wider range of stores that can access the quarantined income, that's fine. Let's make those adjustments. But the essence of the intervention - getting the police in, getting the booze and the porn and the drugs out, then getting the kids back to school and getting the adults working - that has to absolutely be maintained.

KG: You've said that the Federal Government is "watering down" the former Government's policies. Is this in fact a "watering down" or is the Government simply listening to the views of the communities affected?

Tony Abbott: There is no good reason for letting pay TV porn into these places. Now, to be honest with you, Karla, we should not have to wait for a public meeting in these places to tell us that pay TV porn should be banned to ban it. I mean, give me one good argument for allowing pay TV porn into these places when the Little Children are Sacred report has said that pay TV porn is a significant part of normalising the kind of behaviour which should never be acceptable anywhere in Australia.

KG: Many communities have been reluctant to give up control of their land for 99 years. Won't the shorter leases mean that more communities are willing to take up this offer?

Tony Abbott: I don't have an in-principle objection to leases which are of appropriate length for their purpose. What I want to ensure it is that those
Indigenous people who would like to have ownership of their own homes have a meaningful chance to do so. And if you are going to borrow money, for argument's sake, to buy your own home over, for argument's sake, a 25-year period - in other words take out a standard home loan to buy your own home - you have got to have a significant residual at the end of it. And a 40-year lease will not do that with a 25-year home loan. If you're going to have 25-year home loans, you have got to have 99-year leases of the type that they have in the ACT.

KG: You said last week that the Coalition was "entitled to insist upon the intervention in its purity, given that it was a very popular measure and received general support." Yet many people whose lives are affected by this intervention have criticised it. Does the Coalition accept the criticisms of people actually living this intervention?

Tony Abbott: Look, I can well imagine how someone who has been used to drinking and gambling would strenuously object to the quarantining of welfare payments, but frankly, for the good of that person and that person's family, those payments should be quarantined. Now, if someone in that position wants to complain, I suppose politicians have to listen, but they don't have to do anything which is not in the best interests of that person and his or her family. That is what the former government did. We had the courage to take very vigorous, almost revolutionary, action because it was in the best interests of the Indigenous people of the Northern Territory. And we don't believe that it should be watered down just because some people would find it more convenient to go back to the bad old days.

KG: Well, the Federal Government are now rolling out income management in WA. What are your thoughts on that?

Tony Abbott: I think it's a step forward, but unless income management is general in the affected communities, I don't think is going to work. I think that unless everyone is subject to the same regime we're still going to find a lot of problems in these places.

KG: Finally, what consultation with Indigenous communities are you undertaking as Shadow Minister?

Tony Abbott: Well, I am pretty new in the position, but I have had some significant discussions with a range of Indigenous people already. Today, for instance, I spoke to Reconciliation Australia. I have had the usual sorts of discussions with people like Noel Pearson and Warren Mundine - two really great
Indigenous people, who, I think, have a very clear understanding of the way forward both for Indigenous people and for our country in these issues. And I have got a couple of trips planned to remote Indigenous townships. One of the things I'm really looking forward to doing is spending three weeks in one of the
Indigenous townships of Cape York working in the morning as a guest teacher in the local school and in the afternoon with the family income management project in this particular township. So I want to immerse myself even more in the issues of Indigenous Australia as the Shadow Minister than I did when I was the health minister and obviously had a pretty fair experience of Indigenous health issues then.

KG: Well, we will have to leave it there for now. Mr Abbott, thank you very much for your time.

Tony Abbott: Thank you, Karla, it's a pleasure to be on the program.